On distortion and optimal projections

General discussion of map projections.
daan
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Re: On distortion and optimal projections

Post by daan »

Conjecture on conditions of optimality
Atarimaster wrote:Will you at some point (here or elsewhere) elaborate on your ideas on the optimal equal-area map?
All right then.

<speculation>
Snyder was on the right track, but I don’t think he grasped that the boundary condition means nothing to the interior of an equal-area projection. The reason for this difference between conformal and equal-area properties is that equal-area projections are less constrained than conformal. Let’s see how.

For a plane-to-plane projection to be conformal, it must meet two conditions:
x′/∂x = ∂y′/∂y
x′/∂y = – ∂y′/∂x

Equal-area projections, on the other hand, only need to meet one condition:
(∂x′/∂x)(∂y′/∂y) – (∂y′/∂x)(∂x′/∂y) = 1

The Wiechel example I showed above was not even as general than it could have been. We could take an arbitrary little circle somewhere in the Lambert azimuthal and twist up its contents while leaving the entire rest of the map alone, and we’d still have an equal-area projection. That’s completely impossible with a conformal projection: Anything we do to the tiniest part of a conformal projection affects the entire map.

We cannot have a theory of optimality without a theory of uniqueness for the mappings in the space we are working in; otherwise we would not be able to say, “This map is optimal”. A theory of uniqueness means we need something more to constrain equal-area maps; they’re too “floppy”, otherwise.

Let’s posit that, amongst other things, an optimal equal-area map does need to be bounded by an isocol. Let’s posit that because (a) it seems reasonable; and (b) empirical evidence suggests the same thing, given Snyder’s results, and others’. Referring back to the Wiechel vs. Lambert azimuthal example, what is it, really, about the Wiechel that makes it so much worse?

You can answer that it’s the twist, and that wouldn’t be wrong, but how do you even measure “twist”? What is twisted against what? It’s obvious in the polar view that the meridians twist—but what is it about that that makes it “bad”? Meridians in an optimal projection will certainly curve, so it’s not about the curvature per se. Any projection’s meridians curve if you change the aspect, for that matter. Furthermore, if we switch Wiechel to some arbitrary aspect, I bet a lot of people wouldn’t even realize that it’s “twisted”:
Wiechel oblique
Wiechel oblique
Wiechel map.jpg (165.17 KiB) Viewed 90906 times
It seems it really is about the angular deformation specifically. It’s just got more angular deformation everywhere.

Or maybe there’s something else going on. I think you can measure a thing called “torsion” that is not directly related to angular deformation. I define it like this: Torsion is the departure of the major axis of the Tissot ellipse from the isocol. If we superpose the Tissot ellipses onto both the Wiechel and the Lambert azimuthal, you can see that the major axis of the ellipses on the Lambert lie on the isocols, whereas on the Wiechel, they are skewed away from it.
Wiechel on left; Lambert on right
Wiechel on left; Lambert on right
Wiechel+Lambert.jpg (259.19 KiB) Viewed 89925 times
My conjecture is that The optimal equal-area projection for a region bounds the region with an iscol, and has no torsion.

What this implies is that there is an equal-area analog to any conformal map such that the equal-area map has isocols coinciding with the isocols of the conformal map that is optimal for the same region. The set of equal-area maps that could ever be optimal for a region is one cardinality below the complete class of equal-area projections, much like integers are one cardinality below real numbers. Pseudocylindric projections cannot be optimal, nor even close. Cylindric and conic projections cannot be optimal because they do not bound regions with isocols.

The reason I think this works, and works as a theory, is that it constrains the equal-area maps in clear ways that prohibit deviant behavior such as localized twists. It also avoids controversy or alternatives over how to measure an aggregate or quantity across a region.
</speculation>

Unfortunately, I have made no progress on a proof; nor have I made any progress on feasible numerical methods for generating maps based on this conjecture. I have done a huge number of experiments that ended up disproving ancillary conjectures, and unfortunately, those disproofs eliminated various ideas I had for tractable computational methods.

There are other implications to my conjecture that I won’t get into, particularly when it comes to “lumpy” maps where there are multiple, disorganized regions of low distortion interspersed with high distortion, such as that GS50 projection I show in an earlier post in this thread.

— daan
RogerOwens
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Re: On distortion and optimal projections

Post by RogerOwens »

I'd like to reply better to this:
daan wrote:
RogerOwens wrote:As I was saying before, raw information about max angular error, or min/max or max/min scale error, doesn't always best describe aesthetics, or even usefulness.
As I was saying before, I don’t care about claims of æsthetics and “usefulness”. Those are personal, and if they’re not personal, then they’re statistical, but none of us have those statistics and so none of us are qualified to make statements about that on behalf of anyone else, let alone on behalf of science. Nor are we qualified to debate them.
I don't know if it would make sense to debate subjective matters.

My question is: When the raw, un-adjusted angular-error contradicts what we feel or perceive about aesthetics and usefulness, then does the raw angular-error mean anything?

Yes, aesthetics, and intuitive usefulness judged by ease of judging position-relations, are subjective, and different people will rate them differently. But it's better to make some kind of an effort to rate something that has subjective meaning, than to use something that blatantly contradicts our subjective perceptions.

Of course some statistics would be needed to claim universal meaning for subjective ratings. Absent that, then sure, such ratings don't carry much weight, and might just reflect the opinion of one person or a few people.

I don't claim that my subjective rating-functions have any universal meaning, and I intend them only as one person's guess. ...not because I think that my opinion is better, but merely because I don't have anyone else's opinion.I'

Here are a few subjective observations:

(To stand for "min scale/max scale", I'm going to use "shape-accuracy", or "SA".)

1. Though Sinusoidal, at lat 60, lon 120, has much less SA than Tobler CEA at the equator, nevertheless Tobler CEA at the equator looks much, much worse aesthetically, and is much less realistic. So i suggest that SA not caused by meridian-convergence needs adjustment by a ratings function, for a rating by appearance and realism. Low SA caused by meridian convergence looks natural, because an equatorially-viewed globe has it.

2. Though Tobler CEA has more than half of the average SA of Smythe-Craster, Tobler CEA nevertheless looks a lot worse than half as good or realistic as Smythe-Craster. In fact, for appearance and realism, the Africa of Tobler CEA subjectively rates zero. ...as does that of Peters.

3. Anyone intuitively estimating where a position should be looked-for in Africa, in relation to another position, or a subregion, on Tobler CEA or Peters, is basically guessing--in comparison to making the same estimate on Lambert CEA. In that regard, for usefulness for such intuitive estimates, equatorial SA (.5 and 1/pi, respectively), in Peters and Tobler CEA rates zero. Unlike appearance and realism, this rating isn't different for the same SA in Sinusoidal or CEA.

BTW, I wouldn't have expected cylindrical or pseudocylindrical equal-area maps to give the best average SA for an equal-area map. They trade SA for cylindrical-ness or Pseudocylindrical-ness.

Admittedly there are no statistics on the subjective ratings that I've mentioned, but ratings based on raw SA, which blatantly contradict subjective impressions, are even less meaningful or useful than rating-functions based on subjective guesses.

Michael Ossipoff











Once we have such statistics and are motivated to act on them, we still need to know how to optimize for them.

— daan[/quote]
Last edited by RogerOwens on Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
daan
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Re: On distortion and optimal projections

Post by daan »

RogerOwens wrote:My question is: When the raw, un-adjusted angular-error contradicts what we feel or perceive about aesthetics and usefulness, then does the raw angular-error mean anything?
My answer to this is, as it has been many times now, basically, “I don’t care about giving people what they expect, or fantasize is right, or thinks might look good. I’m not about coddling biases. I’m about reality and educating us all to rid ourselves of those delusions, and if I have to look at something that’s objectively better but causes me “discomfort”, then I’m the one that’s broken, not the visualization.

I run into this over and over and over in both my vocation and avocation. I had a big, drawn out battle over scale bars, if you can imagine. There was a strong opinion that we have to show a scale bar because people “expect” them and get upset or wigged out or confused if there isn’t a scale bar. Does it matter that the scale bar means nothing on a world map? Does it matter if it means worse-than-nothing, in the sense of, leading people to wrong conclusions? It got to the point where I could distill the competing argument down to, “It’s okay if people are confused but don’t know that they’re confused, but it’s not okay that they feel confused.”

That ethic repulses me.

— daan
RogerOwens
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Re: On distortion and optimal projections

Post by RogerOwens »

Sure, a scale-bar is meaningless on a world map. Mercator maps usually have a scale-diagram that accurately tells the scale at various latitudes.

I've noticed a scale-diagram like that on some non-conformal world maps, for which of course is misleading, to say the least.

(But a non-conformal cylindrical map could have two scale-diagrams, one for EW scale, and the other for NS scale.)

With any map, the best that can be done, other than calculating the NS and EW scales at a point, is judge it from the graticule-spacings for the graticule-quadrangle of interest.

I've suggested a latitude-ruler (defined in a previous post). For pseudocyindrical maps, one information that could be given by a scale on a latitude-ruler would be east-west scale, at a particular Y-value on the map.

A latitude-ruler for a cylindrical projection could have scales for east-west scale, and also for north-south scale, at a particular Y-value on the map.

Michael Ossipoff
Last edited by RogerOwens on Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
RogerOwens
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Re: On distortion and optimal projections

Post by RogerOwens »

As for "reality" vs subjective impression about aesthetic appearance, or intuitive position estimating accuracy:

That's just a matter of choice between a raw number that's relevant to nothing other than itself, vs an effort to at least try to predict, from it, subjective attributes that have actual value, via a subjective rating-function.

Michael Ossipoff
Piotr
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Re: On distortion and optimal projections

Post by Piotr »

And we didn't even talk about optimal COMPROMISE projections! Hmm... Winkel Tripel? Gall Peters? Stereographic? TsNIIGAiK? lateral equidistant? Van Der Grinten I? Lagrange? Azimuthal Equidistant? extruded globe? Mercator? Gnomonic? Central Cylindrical? Equirectangular? Gall "isographic"? Gall "stereographic"? Apian II? Lambert Conformal Conic? American Polyconic? globe gores?
Image
Image
How do you compare all this?!
Piotr
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Re: On distortion and optimal projections

Post by Piotr »

daan wrote:Any projection’s meridians curve if you change the aspect, for that matter.
Give me a picture of Gnomonic with curved meridians.
daan
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Re: On distortion and optimal projections

Post by daan »

Piotr wrote:
daan wrote:Any projection’s meridians curve if you change the aspect, for that matter.
Give me a picture of Gnomonic with curved meridians.
:D Nice catch.

— daan
daan
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Re: On distortion and optimal projections

Post by daan »

RogerOwens wrote:As for "reality" vs subjective impression about aesthetic appearance, or intuitive position estimating accuracy:

That's just a matter of choice between a raw number that's relevant to nothing other than itself…
This assertion amounts to, “The objective accuracy has nothing to do with whether or not we achieve accurate perceptions of the map.”

Which, of course, is blatantly false.

— daan
RogerOwens
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Re: On distortion and optimal projections

Post by RogerOwens »

daan wrote:
RogerOwens wrote:As for "reality" vs subjective impression about aesthetic appearance, or intuitive position estimating accuracy:

That's just a matter of choice between a raw number that's relevant to nothing other than itself…
This assertion amounts to, “The objective accuracy has nothing to do with whether or not we achieve accurate perceptions of the map.”

Which, of course, is blatantly false.
Alright, I didn't mean to say that. But I described some instances in which perceived realism and usefulness aren't proportional to, or even monotonic with (across different maps), raw shape-accuracy.

So I just mean that it's better to at least try to account for that, by applying a subjective rating-function to shape-accuracy, which I define as min scale/ max scale. The more statistical information is available, then of course the more such a rating-function could mean. But the effort is justified, even when very few opinions are available, regarding some x,y data points on the curve of F(ShAcc)....a rating-function applied to shape-accuracy. Even a few opinions are better than disregarding aesthetic and usefulness perceptions altogether.

Michael Ossipoff
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